Core and Non-core Vaccine For Your Dogs

Dr. Stephanie Grey: So I want to go on to maybe another controversial topic vaccinations. So you know, there are many humans, my patients are now choosing to, you know, be selective with what they inject into their body. And I again, with my animal, I kind of didn’t think twice, I just took her to the doctor, and they just, you know, gave her all her vaccines. And she has gone to doggy daycare, as I’ve mentioned. So I thought, well, I’m supposed to get kennel cough and you know, whatnot. But in the back of my head, I’m thinking, Could some of these have you know, adjuvants or some toxic ingredients that are going to obviously accumulate part of her toxic burden? That could be we’ll just say shortening her lifespan. So I know you have some techniques to kind of minimize some of those effects. But can we talk vaccines for a minute here, kind of what you believe the core and the non core vaccines are I want to talk about titers. And again, what we can do to minimize adverse reactions with vaccination. So I’ll let you kind of take it away.

Dr. Ruth Roberts: You know, and this is the problem, I think, both on the veterinary side and the human side, there is not a rational discussion about what’s necessary for vaccines. So visa vie in New York City, and there are people that have a case of polio, and to me, this is horrifying. My father had polio, and he suffered all of his life with it. How did this happen in the US? And it’s because you’re this way, or you’re that way, and there’s no really rational guidance in between. So for pets, we actually have some, it’s amazing. In 1990, a guy named Ron Shultz published the first study that said, Lo and behold, the duration of immunity is actually three, four or five years, in many cases. And what that means is that when your pet has received a vaccine and been boosted appropriately, based on his or her age, then that immunity lasts for X number of years. So the thing that’s And that study came out in 93, just as we were understanding that vaccines were causing Piper sarcomas and cats, and everybody was like, “Oh, what do we do?” So it turns out the idea of core versus non core vaccines was developed by the AVMA the American Veterinary Medical Association, and the HA HA the American Animal Hospital Association to help guide practitioners about what vaccines really are necessary, how often they give them things like that. Unfortunately, most of my colleagues don’t follow the recommendations. So I think for puppies, it is important to receive a distemper Parvo vaccine, but not until 12 weeks, because that’s when the maternal antibodies drop enough that the puppy can start making its own antibodies to this vaccine.

Dr. Stephanie Gray: And I don’t even remember are they normally given earlier than that

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Many breeders and many veterinarians will start them that six or eight weeks when the chances of having any beneficial effect to the puppies are pretty slim to none. Plus the distemper portion is immunosuppressive, which can create a whole nother bag of wax. Yeah.

[5:22] 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Can you tell us what distemper and Parvo are to quickly this can hear? 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Yeah, so distemper is a neurological virus, and it’s horrible to see it creates seizures and all sorts of really awful effects. And sadly, something like 92% of patients that contract it die from it. It’s ugly. Thankfully, since the fifth, it’s been around since the 50s. And it used to come through and just wipe out entire towns of dogs. But because this is something we’ve been able to protect with against with vaccinations, we rarely see it anymore. Thankfully, parvo virus is something that started up in the late 70s. It is a virus that attacks the lining of the intestines and basically makes the entire inside of the intestine slough out through the body and so this poor puppy is then has this horrible diarrhea and it becomes very bloody because literally the inside of its intestines is coming out. So it kills a lot of puppies. It’s a really awful, awful disease I used to when I was first in practice. Sorry, hi, I was coming back when I was first in practice in the summertime, I would be treating 3040 50 dogs in a week easily. And it’s horrible. These guys suffer. So distemper not very common out there anymore. It is in certain areas that any veteran and you can actually go online and google incidents of distemper and get maps to show you Okay, is this really a problem area or in my area? Or is it not? parvo virus is a problem everywhere. And that’s why this is such a huge, because it’s so ubiquitous, it’s very important to make sure that your dog is protected. And for puppies under 12 weeks, and actually under 16 weeks, I recommend not taking them to public areas until they have some level of protection with the vaccine. 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: So this may sound like a silly question, but you know how there are people who get the flu vaccine and they still get the flu, and maybe that’s because the vaccine was a different strain than what they actually contracted was whatnot with these with distemper and Parvo? Are they really getting vaccinated for the likely strain? They’re going to be in contact? Like, is there one Parvo and one? Does that make sense? 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: There is one distemper there are a few different strains of Parvo, but the vaccine seems to cross protect against all of the different strains, and it has been for 20 years, 20-30 years. That’s what not a problem. Now, the canine flu vaccine is similar to the human vaccine, and I think it’s pretty close to worthless, 

[7:55] 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Okay, okay. Well, we’ll just skip over that one. There we go. Okay. Obviously, rabies is probably next on the list. So let’s talk about that one. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Again, rabies, if you or your pet gets it, it is 99.9% Fatal it is you know, and then, before there was a vaccine available, there were animals and people that died of it with great frequency. In fact, if you’ve watched Old Yeller, that’s what hydrophobia is, is rabies. And it’s pretty, pretty awful stuff. It is important. But it’s important to do this vaccine for puppies somewhere around, you know, the 14 to 16 week mark, once they’ve got some of these other vaccines on board. And that’s what I would always encourage people to do is to separate the vaccines out to do a couple of things. One is so that the puppy or kitten can actually develop an immune response to the things that it has been vaccinated against. And the second is to use some Bucha. In the help, which is an herb, Western cedar will help the body get rid of any toxins. So some of the adjuvants, the things that make the vaccine work better, some of which are great, some of which are not so great, but it helps to clear the system of all of those things. 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Tell us about that. Thuja, how do we dose that? How do we give that immediately after the vaccine, right? 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: And there’s two approaches, you can go with a homeopathic version, like the 30 C, and you would give that at? Let’s see, I think that’s a pellet per 10 pounds daily for five days. And then the way I prefer to do to use Lucia is with the actual tincture or the mother, the mother tincture, if you will, and give that at one drop per 10 pounds twice a day for five days. And I would start that in Alright, when folks get home from the vet. 

[9:41] 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Good, good good. So let’s also talk about titers. So that was also something that I brought it to my vet, like when they’re just kind of pushing all these vaccines, just kind of following protocol. I thought, well, hang on here. I’m happy to pay for a titer. I want to know if my dogs actually do. So are you pro titer? And kind of tell me, tell me your thoughts on that. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: So and again, Dr. Schultz, when he published his paper on the duration of immunity, he started trying to educate the veterinary profession about titers then back in 93. And so a titer is a blood test. And essentially what we’re doing is seeing if the dog or the cat has an adequate amount of antibodies in its bloodstream to protect against a certain disease. And it is a you know, it’s bizarre, the things my colleagues end up telling their clients but it is more expensive than getting the vaccine done itself. But if you don’t need to vaccinate your pet, isn’t that better to know that upfront? Yes. And yeah, and so titers will drop with age. So for instance, our cat Pepe is 13. His rabies titer dropped about three years ago and I needed to booster his his rabies vaccine, because that’s just one of those things you be just don’t mess around with. The difficulty is is that if the distemper portion of the distemper Parvo vaccine if the antibodies dropped against that, but not the Parvo it’s difficult to find just a distemper vaccine, 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: I don’t even remember so how long are those vaccines usually, like scheduled? Are those like yearly that they’re given animals and could titers actually last longer like three to five years or 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: So this is the other thing that’s really heartbreaking to me is that the schedule I would follow is for pup These kittens first vaccine at 12 weeks second vaccine at 16 weeks, and then rabies either 14 weeks or 18 weeks. And then in a year, you would booster again, because they really have not had an opportunity to develop a full fledged adult immune response to these viruses. And then after that, then we would say, Okay, now this vaccine is good for three years, and then we would start doing titers. The sticky part is for the rabies titer. Because a lot of cities and things of that nature wants you to get a license for your dog. And that license is tied to a current rabies vaccine. 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Not the titer vaccine. Yeah, yep. Yeah, shoot, shoot.

[14:10] 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: You also mentioned something on one of your videos about non responders. So if you have an older animal who’s you know, you titer them, then they’re not creating antibodies that they had maybe earlier in life, but there may be a low risk animal like they’re not going to doggy daycare or whatnot. Can we back off on with continued vaccinations on some of those animals?  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Yeah, and really, non responders can be at any age. For instance, we might have a dog that’s now three, and we gave it you know, it’s puppy series, we’re booster to the year and here we are, at the end of three years after that last vaccination, we take a titer sample and there’s no antibodies. And then we’re like, oh, okay, well, we need to booster this pup, we booster the pup, we check the antibodies a year later, and they still don’t have antibodies. So what that means is that the that particular dog’s immune system has not been able to form specific antibodies against those diseases. But there, it may be that the sort of innate or general immune system is able to help fend things off. We don’t know because there’s not a way to test for it. But I think it’s reasonable. So for a 13 year old cat that stays inside only is it reasonable to consider backing off of the vaccines? Absolutely. It’s just so ridiculous sometimes. So the rabies Compendium in 2016 said that if the pet has ever been ever been vaccinated against rabies, it’s considered up to date if it bites somebody and then the Department of Health may ask you to vaccinate again after that. If your vet’s giving you a bunch of flack, you might download the rabies Compendium and read through about about that, and then show him that particular page.

[15:59]

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Let’s talk about some of the non core vaccines. Now I keep mentioning my dog goes to doggy daycare, whatnot. And so I know they asked for Kennel cough, is that Bordetella?  

Dr. Ruth Roberts: That’s Bordetella Bronchiseptica. Yeah, there is an intra nasal one version of that that actually is effective. The injectable one is absolutely worthless. And then there’s another one that’s given orally, and it’s kind of got mixed efficacy.  

Dr. Stephanie Gray: So, I mean, I know Kennel cough highly contagious, but it’s not life threatening. I mean, is it really I keep coming back to Yes, I know. They’re asking for it. But is it? I don’t know how bad it is. I guess I’m asking your opinion, is that one really necessary? 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Well think about it this way. It’s like getting whooping cough. And so it’s going to take you a couple of weeks to get over it. And the problem is, is that for some animals, and some people, the long term effects on the respiratory system can be quite profound. So for instance, that in humans, whooping cough might induced adult onset asthma, and then you have to deal with that for the rest of your life. The other issue is from from the standpoint of the boarding kennel, how horrible would it be to have 20 Dogs turn up with kennel cough? That’s the issue. And it’s an–

Dr. Stephanie Grey: Yeah,I get it. Yeah, yeah. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Because it’s, you know, it’s like having a sick kid, the poor dogs up coughing all night, they have to take antibiotics, et cetera, et cetera. 

Stephanie Grey: And you titer that one too, though, can you do titer–? 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Unfortunately, she really does not last much more than a year. But to me to give an intranasal vaccine where the majority of the immune system work is going to be done against this bug is a better idea than having to deal with it later.

 [17:32] 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Sure. What about lepto and lime? So those are a couple I gave into as well. At the beginning. I thought, Well, my dogs outside we have some there are ticks here, like I’ll do the lepto line. But now I’m thinking isn’t she also taking oral medication for Lyme and ticks which I want to go there next, but let’s stay on the vaccine. For how much–

Dr. Ruth Roberts: It’s so much fun. This is where if you Google incidents of leptospirosis and get a map, you can see is this a problem in my area? Is it not a problem? The weird thing, and lepto is also not a very fun disease. It can cause kidney damage, it can cause damage to your liver, it can cause GI disease. The interesting thing is that we don’t know if the Sara VARs the portions of the lepto vaccine are actually effective against the the particular bacterial species out in the wild and So if your dog develops acute kidney failure, even if your dog has had a test for leptospirosis, they’re going to say well, or a vaccine for Leptospirosis is what I should have said, they’re going to say, well, we should test for it because it, your dog may not be protected. So Leptospirosis is also the vaccine that tends to create the most side effects. So I tend to not get it. Now, if you lived in a really, really, really hot area, meaning there’s a lot of leptospirosis, it may be something to consider, but I would give it away from from other vaccines, and in fact, Dr. Schultz, and he had to tone his message down because the vaccine manufacturers kind of got after him. But at one point in a meeting, he said, This is what you really have to do to make sure your dogs protected, and almost no one does it. And that is finished the puppy series, and then give a lepto vaccine, repeat that in three weeks, repeat that in three months, and then give it every six months. And virtually no veterinarians are giving it every six months. That’s part of the problem. Is it really that the vaccine is failing? Or is it just not giving properly? Lyme disease, that is a whole nother bag of wax if your area is endemic to Lyme, but also to other tick borne diseases like Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, early Anaplasmosis. Dogs get those too. And so if we give a Lyme vaccine and say “huh, don’t worry”, that’s not the case. So what we really have to do is good tick control. And in the Northeast where Lyme started, basically, there’s a split among practitioners there, do you vaccinate? Or do you just really, really focus on tick control?

[20:05  ]

Dr. Stephanie Gray: And you just mean, like every day, check your animal for tick? Is that what you’re saying? Basically? 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Not necessarily. So this is where I would make a case for something like a flea, some sort of external flea and tick. So literally, like a Seresto collar or a topical treatment, something of that nature. And there’s things like Wondercide, which is a cedar oil spray. I mean, there’s a myriad of other options, the more natural you go, sort of the more effort it takes to keep things under control. So you would like if you use Wondercide, or or some of the other essential oils, you may need to treat every 12 hours. So it’s just a matter of how to balance things out.  

Dr. Stephanie Gray: I think one of my patients said, if that’s like a spray, she said, she sprays the underside of her animals before they go on walks every single time. Maybe that’s what it is. And she’s it works great. But she does work. Yeah. Okay, so let’s actually on that topic, go to kind of the flea tick, but I also wanna talk about heartworm medications. And then we’ll wrap up the show. Because, one, I had a lot of questions when I posted on Facebook. I mean, that was one of the top other than what do I feed my animal? Right. The next question was, what are alternatives? And you kind of are already going there with this caller. So let’s stay with alternatives for fleas and ticks. First, and I guess, can we maybe before we talk about alternatives, let’s talk about if you’re kind of for those medications or not, because one follower in particular had said that her dog had some sort of toxicity in the back of his eye from commonly prescribed medication. And her vet said they are the eye specialist for her animal said they see this all the time as a side effect. I don’t even know exactly what that was. But that made me start thinking, well, what are the side effects of all these medications that I just give my no every month? Right without question. And should I be doing that? 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: I think the oral flea and tick products, with rare exception, absolutely not. And the rare exception is the dog that is so allergic to fleas that it will then if it’s not taking something to keep the fleas off, and other methods don’t work, this dog will end up on steroids, antibiotics cyclosporine. And worse than sleep, it’s a better trade off, I think because the dog never experiences the misery of the allergic reaction. Now, for the vast majority of other pets, absolutely not. I mean, the FDA blackbox. Meaning they put it literally made the manufacturers put a big black box on the back of the product that says “don’t give this to dogs that may have seizures”, because we’ve seen an increased incidence of seizures. Well, the other problem is this: think of it think through it this way. And I think we talked about this when we met, you’re giving your dog a antiparasitic or a pesticide. There we go. That’s the right word. You’re giving your dog a pesticide by mouth, that pesticide has to work its way through your pets bloodstream and be stored in the fat in order to be released over 30 days or 90 days in the case of I think it’s bravecto and then that stuff has to go to the skin for the fleet to bite for the fleet to die. So that’s scary. I mean, we’ve got enough scary stuff hiding in our fat cells to put a pesticide it there is just the sun not a great plan. And then a lot of people went to this because “oh I don’t want my kids touching the pesticide. You know from the topical stuff”. It’s still in the dark skin. Granted, it’s not as big of a glob at one time. But 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: I dont even think about that. Yeah, 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: It’s still there. I mean, if the flea has to bite the dog or the cat to die, it’s there.  

Dr. Stephanie Gray: So alternatives. So this Seresto collar you mentioned, what’s its mechanism of action? And is that something that dog wears? 24/7, then

[24:41]

Dr. Ruth Roberts: It is, it is. one of my group coaching clients is like, you know, I just saw that there’s a big class action lawsuit against the manufacturer of Seresto, because it’s killed 1800 dogs, and this is true. The other problem is, is that for the number blank, it comes down to percentages to some degree, right? Because for the number of doses or colors that have been sold, it’s something like point one or point 2% of dogs, but it’s horrible. If that’s your dog, all of the other products, there are similar issues. So I was doing some research. And the problem is, is that the Seresto collars are using something called PFAs are forever chemicals. And these are, you know, they’re horrible. And as they sound, they are in the environment forever. The problem is, and that’s, you know, yuck. They cause cancer, they do dreadful things. The issue is, is that if you live in an area that’s ever your municipality has ever sprayed for mosquitoes, you have breathed, eaten and drunk more PFAs than you will ever put on your dog. And in fact, the state of Massachusetts really has a crisis because their water is so contaminated with PFAs. So it’s like, ah, yeah, all of the lead products, all of the tech products that are sold by veterinarians and sold over the counter and pet stores are pesticides. They are they have inherent risks. And so it’s like, “Golly, what do we do?”

Dr. Stephanie Grey: Yeah, yeah tell us, what do we do? 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: I mean, if you live in Tallinn, You live in Florida and South Carolina, fleas are a big problem. And it is not fun if you have a massive outbreak in your house. So the things that are important is to do what’s called environmental control. And you can do this with nematodes that actually eat the eggs and larvae. You can do this with borax with diatomaceous, earth, things of that nature. And then you can use things like insect growth regulators that prevent the Li from forming a molecule called Titan, which creates their their skeleton, their exoskeleton, if you will, their protective layer. You can use things like capstar, which is a tablet you would give your dog or cat if you see adult fleas on it. You can use an insect growth regulator that’s given orally with a neuron, which unfortunately is only available in the US in combination with the heartworm prevention. Even in Europe, they use it they feel very comfortable with it and with its safety. And then there’s a myriad of other more natural options. So Amber collars literally collars made out of the stone ampere, zero bugs zone, which are electromagnetic, to create an electromagnetic field that repels fleas and ticks. 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Does that pose other dangers, though? When I think of EMFs, I think from a computer or cell phone, you know, right? 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: No, and you know, so we’re the only danger that I’ve seen thus far is for pets that have seizures, and so it can increase the likelihood of a seizure breaking through. But as far as long term health effects, I’m not aware of any. I’ve never seen any research to the contrary. In fact, I’ve only seen research about the safety of these problems.  

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Okay, well, you listed a lot of alternatives so we need any any research those when you said borax, did you mean is that like, maybe she’s my ignorance, but some of those products? Are you saying we would apply those to our lawn or to our animal that belong on? Okay. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Right? So and a lot of people will give diatomaceous earth orally for fleas, but it doesn’t work that way. And I think it just ends up really irritating the gut, it works externally around the house in shady areas is where fleas are going to be more likely to be. And then between the sofa cushions on under the dog’s bed. You know, the bedding cover, things of that nature. So these are all environmental treatments, so treating both inside the house and outside the house to limit the amount of fleas that can grow. 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: What was that that wash that you mentioned that I said one of my patients had used that. What was the name of that I already forgot, and I gotta write it down.

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Oh, the wonder side spray. And in fact, yeah, if you go over to my website, to Dr. Ruth roberts.com and just search for flea control alternatives or just fleas in general. There’s I’ve written several blogs about awesome oz. There’s a whole host of info. Yeah.

 [29:12]

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Okay. Last heartworm does my dog need heartworm medication every month?

Dr. Ruth Roberts: And in the American heartworm society actually says this So they’ve gone back and forth.Again, look at the incidence map of where you live. heartworm is in almost every state, I think for pigs up for like Nevada and Arizona and the truly desert states. But what The American Heartworm Association is now saying is that probably we can get away with every 60 days giving it because of the lifecycle of the heartworm itself. 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Good to know. This is all awesome. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Yeah. And so with that I would give you know, when you give heartworm prevention, wait 24 hours and give something simple, like ivermectin heart garter, its alternatives. Sentinel is the one that has Luffy neuron in it. But at any rate, the way they work, you give the pill, it’s in the pet system for 24 hours, and then it’s out. But post 24 hours, I would start on some milk thistle to help just kind of clean the decks.

[30:10] 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: All right, I’m sure our listeners are just at this point thinking “holy smokes”, because you provided so I suppose. So so much information. But this is all on your website. I mean, I could have spent hours on your website, you just have so much information there. I do want to ask just a few things that I know you think are very important as far as in the society we live in. I know I talked to my human patients about this all the time how important stress reduction is for us. But this is also important for our animals. I think you believe this. So how can we incorporate some of that kind of mindfulness and meditation for our animals?

Dr. Ruth Roberts: I think it’s absolutely critical. Because if we’re wandering around in and we’re wired to the gills, we can’t relax, we’re constantly checking our phones or anxiety levels just through the roof. They’re like, holy smokes, what is wrong with mommy, she is just nuts. So what I really strongly recommend for all of my clients, and folks that I’ve talked to over the years, is take at least three minutes, turn off everything that dings, turn off all the screens, preferably go sit outside under a tree. And just breathe and relax with your dog and hang out for three minutes. If you do nothing more than pat her and tell her how beautiful she is and how grateful you are that she’s in your life that is going to do a world of good for you and for her. It is good. I mean, they’re reading our energy. And our energy is like crazy frenetic. And unfortunately, I think the other the other problem is is that pets become our emotional mirrors, and also buffers. They can reflect back to us like you are really off your rocker right now, and we can choose to see that or we can just kind of keep going past it. But they are showing us things about ourselves that we really need to pay attention to. And as we receive that information and act on it, our lives get better, their lives get better, because they’re less stressed. The other thing is, is that I have seen families that come in with the third dog with lymphoma, or the fourth dog with hemangiosarcoma of the, you know, the, all of their dogs have blown their cruciate and I am convinced that our pets and buffering things for us so that we can wake up message and go on to do what it is we’re supposed to do in life. So I mentioned earlier that one of my dogs had bacterial endocarditis. And I firmly believe that she took the hit for me and prevented me from having a heart attack.  And that may sound a little crazy. But that’s I’ve seen this happen with pets and other people over the years. 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Yeah, to put the whole long story in a book, you gotta write a book with all well tell listeners where they can find you and kind of connect with the CrockPet Diet. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: So if you head over to drruthroberts.com, that’s the website, go check out the blog. As Dr. Gray said, there is tons and tons and tons and tons of information there. And we’ve also got a really awesome download called or PDF that called When Not to Take Your Pet to the ER Vet. It is packed with suggestions of things that you can do at home for emergency situations that are quite emergencies. And it also is filled with information about Yeah, this is an emergency and you really need to go. So we’ll get you a link where you can just go sign up for it, get the download. And then also for listeners of the podcast, we would will extend a 10% discount on The Original CrockPet Diet. That title sort of belies what it truly is. It is a recipes it is cooking videos. It is an e book, but it’s also a weekly question and answer over YouTube where you can get information about how to tailor the diet to your pet in specific and that’s something that I do and now that I’ve got my first class of Holistic Pet Health Coaches graduated, they’ll start stepping in and doing some of those questions and answer sessions as well. But it’s I mean for less than $100 This is a huge bargain. 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: Love it limit. Thank you. I will post that link in code in the show notes. So as we wrap up every episode I always ask my guests their time longevity tip. So what would your top longevity Tip Be humans animals are for both. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: It’s got to start with food. If you’re eating garbage, it’s the old garbage in, garbage out. And next to that, it’s taking time to slow down and appreciate where you are. 

Dr. Stephanie Gray: So good. This was wonderful. So thank you so much for coming on the show today and again, sharing your original Crockpet diet. And I look forward to being able to try this on lily, my miniature Goldendoodle and thank you for being an advocate and an educator for us for the longevity of our furry friends. This was awesome. 

Dr. Ruth Roberts: Thank you so much. My pleasure. 

Dr. Stephanie Grey: Thank you. Again, so much information right there. She has protocols for kidney skin, liver cancer, you name it on her website, so if you need extra support for your pet, consider scheduling a consult with her. It’s clear for me that I need to pitch the kibble that I still hadn’t and add in some supplements. They already gave Lilly Fishel but she’s going to be getting Dr. Roberts probiotic dosha and milk thistle now as well. After the interview I did ask Dr. Roberts how much milk thistle I should be giving my pet after giving her heartworm medication. So she shared the average milk thistle capsule is usually around 200 milligrams. So for my mini golden doodle I need to wait 24 hours after giving the heartworm medication for that to kick in. Then I’m going to give her half of a capsule twice daily in her food per week to help her liver detox. Be sure to check out my book Your Longevity Blueprint. And if you aren’t much of a reader, you’re in luck. You can now take my course online where I walk you through each chapter in the book. Plus for a limited time the course is 50% off, check this offer out at your longevity blueprint.com and click the Course tab. One of the biggest things you can do to support the show and help us reach more listeners is to subscribe to the show. Leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. I do read all the reviews and would truly love to hear your suggestions for show topics guests and for how you’re applying what you learned on the show to create your own longevity blueprint.